It's Marketing's Fault

Alex Nicorici [0:00 - 0:19]: But when you put it into a perspective everybody understands, like, they also would make sense, the tech would also make sense to them. And that's when they will become interested in the industry, not when you just see a bunch of technical stuff that you don't really understand. You don't know how to make it make sense, let's say.

Eric Rutherford [0:19 - 0:58]: Yeah, I agree. It's being able to put that tech in the context of where individuals are, whether that's on a consumer level, whether that's on a corporate enterprise level. Welcome to it's marketing's fault, the podcast where we discuss how to do marketing the right way. I'm your host, Eric Rutherford, and I'm excited today because I have with me Alex Nicarish. She is the founder of out of Ordinary, which is a Web3 consulting firm for Web3 startups and scale ups. She is also the host of out of Ordinary, a Web3 marketing podcast. Alex, welcome to the show.

Alex Nicorici [0:59 - 1:02]: Hi, Eric. Thank you so much for inviting me, and I'm so happy to be here.

Eric Rutherford [1:02 - 1:31]: Oh, it is my pleasure. I was excited when we're able to schedule this just because of the topic and as well as just how the marketing and podcasting and all of that can fit together for brands across the spectrum. So really excited to jump in today as we do. So what is a common perception about Web3 that you disagree with?

Alex Nicorici [1:31 - 4:23]: I think a lot of people think that Web3 is a scam. So first of all, I think we should say that most people that don't know anything about Web3, they don't know what Web3 is. So sometimes when I say, oh, web two stuff, they're like, so I don't know, what's web two? What. It's Web3. So that's where the difference or, like, what the discussion should start from, first of all. So to kind of define it like Web3 is like, in web two, you went web one, you only had like a page, like a website. In web two, you had the blog so you could interact with it. And in Web3, you can also, you have like a piece of that specific project. So in our case, tokens, nfts and so on. So that's why we call it Web3. And I think in the majority of time, people that have interacted with, with this part of the industry, let's say, or this part of tech, they think it's a scam most times because they don't really understand it. So they think it's just crypto. But obviously it's not just crypto. It's so much more than that and so much, so many more things can be done and there's so many amazing communities and so on. And I think if anybody would actually dig a bit deeper into it, it's like a rabbit hole. You get deeper and deeper and then you're like, oh my God, it's such a fascinating world. I want to know more about it. So I think this is what attracts the majority of us to stay in the space, to stay in the industry. And I think anybody should at least have the curiosity to learn a bit more about it and understand its use. And just to give you an example, I was with a friend yesterday and she, she's a, she was applying for a job, but she had to design this learning process for Siemens. So she was like, oh my God, I don't know exactly how I should solve this brief because she had to do a strategy. And I said, well, do you think about industrial metaverse? I'm like, I don't exactly know if it's called like this for Zimmers because they don't work for, it's not like automotive, but metaverse has been used as a platform for learning for such a long time by many companies. Just like, no, what is that? Let's Google it. And I for the first results on Google, you see Siemens is actually using industrial metaverse. And I'm like, well, and they also have nfts. And I'm like, did you, did you check that out? She's like, oh my God, this is such an interesting thing. Maybe it actually makes sense for me to propose them this. And I'm like, they are all super open, but the fact that you didn't know anything about Web3 or anything about this, like, new technology cannot come with like innovative ideas. So at least if you don't want to invest, that's fine. If they want to use crypto, it's fine. But there's so much more to the industry and that's what I feel like people don't really see.

Eric Rutherford [4:23 - 4:38]: I agree. I think the technology, what can be done with it, there's so much out there. And you mentioned nfts, and I know what nfts are, but our audience may not. Would you describe a little bit more about what an NFT is?

Alex Nicorici [4:39 - 6:10]: NFT word comes from non fungible token, and basically it's a digital asset that's not replicable and has the proof of having one owner. So, for example, we can have the same photo, but nobody knows who has the original. But with NFT, you know, that specific asset has one owner and who's the owner of that specific asset. So basically, it's more like the thing that like proves ownership of this digital asset. So nfts have been used for artists for probably you, many people, maybe many of the listeners as well, have listened to a lot of news about, oh, this NFT dropped in price or this NFT this and that. The cool thing about it is that it can be used in like different ways. So, for example, it was like all this hype where people were just using photos that they would sell and they would go up in price. Obviously, it was, was room for trading there, let's say, to make money off it at the same time to kind of continue my, my idea from, from before. There are also utility nfts. So, for example, there are situations in which there's a project in Web3 that bought an entire, they sold nfts and they bought an entire team of basketball. So because you hold that NFT now, you have like a part of the revenue share for that specific basketball team. So this is just an example for everybody to understand that not just like digital assets that don't use to, they can only make you money or like lose you money, depending on how you look at it.

Eric Rutherford [6:10 - 7:24]: But I appreciate that because it's the business case. It's the tool that a company can use to distribute ownership very much. You can use it like you say, it's a proof of ownership or proof of asset. So if a company wants to distribute revenue or, you know, dividends, they can do it through like an NFT. That way they can it. I'm trying it just the, you, you see so many things out there where it's simply a copy of something. And that could be anything, the memorabilia, space, anything, honestly, even car titles and everything else. Like you can, there's, with that, you can have one owner and you can tie it digitally. I think that's the really fascinating aspect of it, is just the way you can move assets, the way it sort of transcends some of the tech that we have right now. There's just so much cool stuff with it. I think the use cases are. I think it's pretty, pretty endless in terms of use cases.

Alex Nicorici [7:24 - 9:07]: Yeah, I think just to chill a bit. I think that's kind of what motivated me to build this community in Web3 and to build this podcast, because I felt like there's so much hype about it, but nobody was talking about the utility of it. You could only see that in very big companies. For example, there are a couple of newsletters you can watch or you can read. Some of them are more focused on corporate, let's say. So for example, like Zima, how it went into Web3, or how Visa is partnering with Metamask to, I don't know, do a debit card, which, by the way, some of this already exists in Web3. It's not like it's big news, but just for a PR standpoint, it sounds like really awesome and so on. But otherwise, I think, like, there's so many more situations that people don't really know where to find or how to, how to look at things. And that was actually my motivation to start this podcast and to kind of continue doing that, because there's so many, especially for marketers, there's so many use cases that you would like, oh, this makes sense. Oh, this is how they've used this and so on and all these examples that everybody wants to, and this is how they actually learn. It's not just through learning a page, a documentation page about what is ZK knowledge, ZK roll ups, or I don't know what, like something super technical. But when you put it into a perspective everybody understands, like, they also would make sense. The tech would also make sense to them. And that's when they will become interested in the industry, not when you just see a bunch of technical stuff that you don't really understand. You don't know how to make it make sense, let's say.

Eric Rutherford [9:07 - 9:37]: Yeah, I agree. It's being able to put that tech in the context of where individuals are, whether that's on a consumer level, whether that's on a corporate enterprise level. You know, I, I was always curious what they could do because I was in, I was in the transportation industry for several years. And just from supply chain and other things, I was always curious what could be done, truly, from, from tracking to identification. What's that?

Alex Nicorici [9:37 - 9:38]: Blockchain?

Eric Rutherford [9:38 - 10:01]: Yeah, that's it. Like, the blockchain is, is like the perfect way to track movement of, of goods and assets because it can't be duplicated, it can't be forged, it can't be. I mean, it's just, to me, supply chain and logistics is, is like a beautiful use case for it.

Alex Nicorici [10:02 - 12:02]: Something that was very interesting for me, like straight from the beginning, like when I got into it, because so many people asked me like, oh, so you're here for the money or you're here for the technology. And I'm like, have to be honest, like, I'm here for both. Okay. I totally, I think the technology, like initially got me in, not the money. I also got into Web3 at the beginning of the bear market. So it wasn't really, the money wasn't on the table, let's say, back then, but at the same time. So I hope I'm not saying a lie, but it's something that definitely I want to look more into because I've been looking at like different kind of kinds of ways on how you can like stop corruption, for example, or like, especially as you are saying, like good tracking of goods, like where you lose them and what, what happens with, with which, with like all sorts of stuff. And if I somebody, I was, I was talking to somebody recently and they were telling me that Estonia uses blockchain for voting. So that is an interesting case and it would make a lot of sense for a lot of people because basically you cannot forge votes on it, especially in the context in which Romania had. So I'm originally from Romania. We had elections recently for european parliament and for the local, for mayors and stuff. And there was a huge, huge scandal, especially in Bucharest, about a lot of like thousands of votes being stolen. And probably this has been situation in which it happened before, but nobody talked so publicly about it and they were like, it's a huge, huge media scandal about it. And then you as a citizen, you're like, oh, so does my vote actually matter? Does my opinion actually matter? Like, why would I ever want to go vote if this is being stolen anyway and is being shifted in towards who needs to win the elections? So I think this is also a use of the technology that we have in Web3 or the blockchain and how it could actually improve our lives and make our living better.

Eric Rutherford [12:02 - 12:23]: I think that's a brilliant use case because it, it provides validity to the information. It can't be lost, it can't be stolen. And you, honestly, you can't do things like add votes that don't exist. I mean, it just, it provides a really good one to one type of case for its use.

Alex Nicorici [12:23 - 12:24]: Exactly.

Eric Rutherford [12:24 - 12:46]: So, so let me ask, I know you've got the podcast. I know you help out of ordinary with marketing. So what problems do you solve for like, Web3 founders and other companies in the Web3 space in terms of the marketing and understanding and sort of getting the word out there, the.

Alex Nicorici [12:46 - 18:42]: Easiest thing besides the consulting part, and everybody comes with different needs. Community building is one of their biggest needs because in web two, I feel like people kind of forgot about it and they want more ads and ways to drive traffic, whereas in web two is so much in Web3 so much more about the community building side of things and the community engagement and points systems and yada, yada, yada. So it's a lot about that. Or like go to market strategies or how do you market the product, or how do you make it like be product market Fitzhen, which obviously you do that in web two as well within Web3 with like some different tactics and tools. One of the best ways that I also help founders and happily, I'm in a situation which I don't need to look for speakers because they always come to me so many times, especially when they're in a situation which they need to grow or they want to be do some pr and so on. Like I get pitched a lot, quite a lot, like from pr agencies to, to get them some, all types of speakers on the podcast, which I think is quite interesting because then they come and talk. Some of them want to talk, like technology. Somebody recently pitched me to come and speak about my podcast on quantum computing since deep ins. What? I'm like, guys, this is a bit too complicated. Like my web, my marketers audience would not dig this. Unless you want like a special session and who wants to? If you want, I can help you promote it. But otherwise, like, it's, unless you speak about how to market quantum computers, and that's a different story. But otherwise, like, many times, like some of the, some of the speakers come and talk about like the marketing side of things, some of the things that have experimented, campaigns that they have done and so on. And the good thing is that they, disinformation stays online, right? So it's not like it's a one time thing. It's not a Twitter space. It's not like a LinkedIn live event, wherever you just create the content, and then it's like spoof is gone and only a very small amount of people have found it. You never know when. How do you call that something is going to start trending and then maybe your podcasts are going to start. Maybe the topic of the podcast you did with me is going to start trending. An example I have is I was speaking to somebody recently and they asked me about this speaker. I'm like, yeah, it was amazing. Like, how do you know them? And he said, I actually found your podcast because I was looking for, I was about to be interviewed by the CEO. So I found your podcast and he was on your podcast, and I listened to the episode with him and I found it fascinating. I think it made me understand what he's up to and how he is as a person. So I would know how to approach the situation, which I think it's fun. So employer branding for the win and also when it comes to building credibility for yourself as a founder for, for the company you're running or for the team you're, you're, you're managing and so on. So I think this is one of the ways that I can help. Something else I was telling you at the beginning of the episode is that I recently started playing around with a platform called Post Media. And basically you can mint the episode, you can put it on the blockchain and then people can make it as collectible. So you can basically make it free. You can play with the pricing, you can, I mean, you set up a pricing at a beginning, you can cap it. So you can make, or you can make it unlimited. So for example, you get it. Like only 50 people can have this or only like 2000 or unlimited people can, can have that. The Web3 audience is so used to collecting things and to getting this kind of nfts and so on, what I played around is that, what I thought is that I don't like asking people to just give me money for nothing. So I want them to create this small community engagement campaign with their audience where they would receive something in return. And they receive sometimes like points in some campaigns that is being run. There's, there's this thing in Web3 called point farming. So you basically need to go from place to place and do certain activities. So for example, if you like my Twitter page, you get five points. If you, I don't know, get into discord, you get, I don't know, how many points and so on. So you have all these activities planned out beforehand. And with one of my last speakers with Cookie three, which is a marketing platform for Web3, they were doing this like coin farming campaign for their upcoming token launch and they included the podcast episode within this questing thing that people, their audience had to do. So basically they rewarded them with a bigger amount of points if they collected the episode. And we sold it in about two weeks, we had 200 nfts and I'm sure we could have done a lot more. I think I was just like too scared to, to kind of push, push the pedal, let's say. Because I was like, oh, it's my first campaign, I'm so scared of it. But I think it was, it was pretty amazing. And I'm so happy that I did that because it's not just a way to kind of like, pay me back. But it's also a way for you to engage your community. It's a way to, to kind of stand out and do something more. Web3, because being on podcast is fun. And the majority of the Web3 podcasts, they don't really do anything Web3 related. They promote products, they have sponsors, Web3 tools, products, companies, I don't know, but they don't really use this tool. So as more and more tools are coming up or they're being built and you can test them out, I think it's so much fun to have something web related for a Web3 audience and to kind of stand out from the crowd.

Eric Rutherford [18:43 - 19:40]: I love that. I really do. Just the, the community aspect of it is really unique. And I kind of liken it back to early social media days. So if you don't, you think back to even MySpace or early Facebook when people actually, the whole reason you were there was to talk with people and interact with people and, you know, you weren't getting bombarded with ads. You actually saw things in people's feeds because you know, that, you know, they hadn't, they weren't worried about all the money yet. And so it's, there is this, this community aspect that is unique. I mean, even things like, you know, I know certain brands and certain entrepreneurs, they, they have different Facebook groups, they have different other things like that. And it's, it's on those lines, but yet it's still different. I mean, it's more than that in a lot of these cases. Would you agree?

Alex Nicorici [19:40 - 19:46]: 100%. And while you were talking about it, I was thinking about, I don't know if you know about a platform called Forecaster.

Eric Rutherford [19:47 - 19:54]: I have heard of it and looked at it a while ago, but have not looked at it recently. Would, you would love to hear more.

Alex Nicorici [19:54 - 24:21]: So, Forecaster, I mean, for me, it's still a dilemma because, uh, before it was Lens and Leinster and some sort of, like, YouTube version of lens and basically was a platform for content creators to build communities so that they can token gate all sorts of documents or any educational programs that they had. So that was, and I don't exactly know what happens with lens because I haven't really heard much about it. I know they still exist, I know they still sponsored events, but I haven't really, I don't know. But forecaster has been built only as a community for the community. So one of the coolest things that I, because that I saw there and right now, for example, they included this thing where you can give your, you can buy, I think you have a free allocation per month of tokens, and you also have, you can also buy tokens and you can give them as rewards to your favorite creators. So if I post something that people think it's fun and it's interesting, they can, they can, they can reward me with like 100 degen or like ten bonsai or whatever. So I think that's, that's really cool from a creator perspective. Like, and you build this sense of community where everybody supports each other to grow. And to me personally, besides all these, like, fascinating things in Web3, because I told you, it's a rabbit hole. And, like, it's, it's always like the shiny new thing. I think it's, I really love the community side of it, like, the most. And in web two, for example, I tried so many times, like, I tried this, I tried to produce content in different types of ways. I tried with TikTok, I got bored. I tried with Instagram, I tried with, like, long form YouTube videos. I spent so much time building my reputation on LinkedIn, and it was absolutely useless in four months. So a couple of months ago, I moved to Twitter. I can't do this anymore with LinkedIn. I think I'm picking up a bit more momentum on Twitter, so let me try to figure out how that works. And I grew to 2000 followers in four months. I think I could have done better, but taking into consideration that I didn't know how Twitter works or any kind of algorithm, I managed to grow to, like, 2000 followers. And I have, like, close to half a million impressions. I'm like 480,000 impressions right now. In the last four months. I would have never got that on LinkedIn or any other platform. But crypto, Twitter is so engaged and the people there are so crazy to support each other and to get involved. And the more I grow, the more involvement I see. Like, the majority, like, I don't want to say they go viral because I don't know if this is the correct word, but I have an account that's like, close to 2000 followers right now. And I have every couple of posts, I hit, like 16,000 impressions, 40,000 impressions, which would never happen on any other platform. People get so engaged there. And to me, this is the best thing ever because it makes me feel supported. It makes me feel that what I'm building there makes so much sense, and it pushes me to keep building and also to kind of see that it's not just online. It's not like the mirage of, like, building something online and you don't know who these people are. I got stopped. So I was telling you before, like, right before we were recording that I was in Brussels, like recently, this, like one of the biggest crypto events, and there were so many people that recognized me from Twitter or from the podcast. They're like, oh, my God, you're Alex. Oh, you had it, my friend. Or like, oh, I know you. And it was such a nice thing to see that. Like, there's so many people that I've spoken to or like that I've interacted with online. And now we get to meet face to face, even randomly, because obviously before all this event, everyone's like, oh, yeah, let's meet, let's meet. And then you have like 2000 messages and, like, I can't reply to all of them. If I meet you, I meet you. If I don't, I don't know, but it's amazing. So this part of the community in Web3, for me, it's absolutely fascinating. It's what drives me every day. It's what makes me excited to still be industry and to continue building a day.

Eric Rutherford [24:21 - 24:44]: I love that. That is so encouraging because I don't know, I mean, the business world and content creation and entrepreneurship, all of that is. It's tough. It is a really difficult thing to do. So when you find that support and that community, it truly is just a, it's refreshing.

Alex Nicorici [24:44 - 24:46]: But would you say, like, it's the same in web two?

Eric Rutherford [24:47 - 25:02]: No, not at all. Yeah, it's, it is not. I mean, you, you find different people, but at the same time, like, as a general rule, it's, it's not, it's not that way.

Alex Nicorici [25:02 - 25:37]: Yeah, that's what my, I work with, like, web two startups all my life, and I've been in the business world for a while and I feel like it's never like this. People don't really. I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, Web3 is also formed of web two people. Right. So it's not like, it's like new people that were born and you were put into Web3, but at the end, at the same time, I think there, it's such a culture that's being built around this thing kind of from the beginning that people kind of embraced it and they all go on with it.

Eric Rutherford [25:37 - 26:14]: Yeah, I can definitely see a lot of people from that web two, that social media, that all that type of space who they just wanted with this Web3 technology. They said, hey, let's do the stuff we want to do. And let's get rid of all the ads and all the, just the junk. The fact that you can't see, you get 1% visibility on anything you share. And, yeah, it seems like you have this gravitation towards it just to get rid of the stuff that they don't like and doesn't work and actually focus on the good stuff.

Alex Nicorici [26:15 - 28:35]: Yeah. Something else I like, and I'm gonna continue. I'm gonna stop talking about it. One of the other things I like about it is the fact that I feel like in web two, you've kind of seen all sorts of the spectrum, the same spectrum, right? So everybody's talked about, like, the SEO, how to get leads through your blog, how to, blah, blah, blah, how to get ads, how to make your ads work in your favor, how to, how to, how to. In Web3, there's no playbook, and you cannot make a playbook, because by the time you finish writing the playbook, it's, oh, it's old, so you cannot apply exactly the same. Maybe they're like some fundamentals, but I think marketing has, like, the same fundamentals anywhere. So you go from there. So I think it kind of pushes people to kind of be creative all the time, to test a lot more, to try different things, to try different platforms, to partnerships is something super, super big in Web3. And actually, it's not like, oh, we partner up with, I don't know who to, to deliver better quality, blah, blah, blah. So it's just like a big name or a big, big title in a press release on many of these companies or many of these partnerships in Web3, they do a lot of, like, cross promo, they do a lot of, and to give an example, like something that I just came to my mind right now, I think it's a good, it's a really good example. And maybe your audience would be interested in that as well. I know of a company, there were like two games. So each one of them, they had a partnership, and each one, they had their own Discord channel, discord server. And basically what they did is that they made this campaign where people had go from example, my discord to your discord, and they made a picnic. So they had different things they had to collect from there, do certain tasks, collect that the meat or the blanket or the tomatoes or whatever, and bring them back to my discord and vice versa. And this way, you also, like, swapped users, because basically the whole point of this is to grow your user base. And I feel like there are all these creative things that I see in Web3 that I think it's so much fun to watch, to be honest.

Eric Rutherford [28:35 - 29:26]: Well, it seems like in a lot of other places, there's a scarcity mentality I have to, like, there's only so much to go around. There's only so much revenue, there's only so much space. There's, you know, I love the pie example, right? There's only so much pie. Like, there's only one pie, and you have to get as much of it as you can. But it seems like more in the Web3 space. There is this openness, this just the opposite. Right. There is this understanding that, man, we can do whatever we want. The partnerships matter because it's not because we're going to be exclusive, it's because we want to do more stuff and we want to expand brands and my brand and my project and my company grow when your company grows. And so let's not fight each other. Let's figure out a way to help each other out.

Alex Nicorici [29:26 - 29:32]: Yeah. And it kind of goes back to the part of this community and like this close knit in there in the industry it is.

Eric Rutherford [29:32 - 30:17]: So let me, let me ask just about podcasts in general, how, I guess, about podcast relevance, because I know you've got out of ordinary, you've been using it to really engage with brands, with companies. But then there are other, as you work with companies in this space, how important is it, do you think, for, for these companies to even founders or I'll say founder slash company to engage with podcasts, either to host or to be guests on podcasts? How do you see that podcast medium playing out and working in Web3?

Alex Nicorici [30:17 - 33:12]: I think at the end of the day, it goes back to one question, what is your goal? And with that, I think I said everything. I've seen companies in Web3 that do have a podcast, but unfortunately for many of them, because they're either bootstrapped or they don't have enough resources and so on, I think it's very hard to produce constant content. So if you do not produce constant content, it's very hard to have to use it as a lead generation tool on a constant basis. So it's kind of like up and down, and then if you don't see results, it kind of demotivates you. And then you're like, oh, I spoke to recently with somebody in the Web3 space. They have a Google Analytics tool for Web3, and so they do a lot of attribution for the websites and so on. So I was like, oh, my. They have this like big community of marketers in Web3. I'm like, guys, why did you close your, you started your podcast, you did two episodes and I was dead. What happened? He's like, but we had 300 plays in the first, for the first episode. And I thought Twitter is growing faster. I'm like, first of all, you cannot compare the two. Second of all, like, this needs time to build. And then obviously, if you already had, if you already have a reputation and you had like 300 plays for the episode, that's totally fine. Like, you don't have to have, like, what you were expecting, like thousands plus. You speak about, like, marketing topics. So you are a niche in a niche. You go Web3 marketing podcast for b two B. So it's not like consumers. It's not like you're, you're selling tomatoes and everybody can buy tomatoes the next day. So it's, it's, you grow hard. Like, it takes time to grow. And I think that's why I think, like, the majority of the, the companies, not just in Web3 and web two as well, don't really understand that. That's kind of where they stop because they want to see immediate results, which obviously, you know it, I know it. Everybody who's been podcasting knows it, knows it. And I think that was, that's one of the reasons why my podcast right now is the only Web3 marketing podcast on the market. Because when I started, there were like six of them. They all died like that. I don't know the majority of them, they don't even have like ten episodes. So I think that's how a lot of people found me, because they were looking for resources. They're like, oh. Because it was so. It was actually very funny. I asked people, hey, how do you find my podcast? They're like, I was like, LinkedIn? They're like, no, I searched it on Apple podcast or Spotify, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. So it indexes over time. That's what I was saying, that podcasts are pieces of content that, like, can grow in value over time. So that's one. And what was the last part of the question?

Eric Rutherford [33:12 - 34:19]: Oh, no. Do you part of it was just kind of hearing the examples that you had of companies that were either trying it or not trying it. It's fascinating that they did two episodes. Their first episode had 300 downloads. That's crazy huge to launch a podcast for everybody listening. Let's get into the nuts and bolts of it for a minute. In 2024, when you launch a podcast, if you get 300 episodes downloads in the first week or so. Double down on it, put all your resources into it to repurpose the content and go because you have struck gold. Let's just say you have struck gold. And yeah, the ability for podcasts to really grow and compound over time is incredible. The fact that they found you through Apple or Spotify, like they actually were able to search and find you is amazing because those search engines just aren't that good. So, man, you're in a great spot.

Alex Nicorici [34:19 - 34:25]: I had no idea people use that as a search engine. It was such an eye opening for me.

Eric Rutherford [34:26 - 34:41]: Oh, my word. I gave up on it a long time ago. I remember a few years ago trying to find podcasts that way and I'm like, this is just garbage. I mean, I don't know, it's in terms of searching. So the fact that they found you, that is amazing.

Alex Nicorici [34:41 - 35:39]: Yeah, I think it's, it's fun. There's also, there's some guys with who I think about a year ago, a year and a bit ago, they made a list of like top 50 podcasts in Web3. And I think they just collected like everybody and they, they contacted everybody. Like, hey, you're on this. Like, I think my out of ordinary or triple o as some people call it, they, it was like number four or something. I'm like, how did I get number four then? I think they, they increased the list to about like a hundred and I think I was number twelve or something. But I don't think it was like a real way to kind of measure it. So, and I've also seen that, I've checked some of those with them. Like some of them already died. Like they had a couple of episodes and they died. But one of my friends sent me the link the other day. He's like, hey, did you know about this? And I saw that, like, I'm in top ten again. So I think I'm doing something.

Eric Rutherford [35:39 - 36:16]: Oh, but that's awesome because I think you're right. It is very much a game of attrition. And that as businesses are out there and they're like, I'm going to start a podcast. Whether they are Web3 or web two or just a plain old brick and mortar. You know, if it's all about the long game and the longer you can hold on, the more people and more businesses are going to fall by the wayside and suddenly it puts you at the top simply by longevity, just by being there the longest. I think businesses underestimate that.

Alex Nicorici [36:16 - 37:34]: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I think that's kind of proof that, or why some of these founders want to be on podcasts or like why PR agency suggested people to be on the podcast still. And it's such a high demand because they know this, this, this pieces of content will get to people that can't reach otherwise, even if it's, for example, in my case, it's very marketing specific. So maybe not everybody will become their clients or maybe their, their products maybe is specific to my kind of audience or maybe it's not. But they know, as you were mentioning, the reputation it compounds over time. So people will see that on this podcast, on this newspaper, on this talk and so on. So I think like building reputation and especially in the Web3 space is such an important thing to do. Building relationships and knowing everybody, it's something that like, cannot be explained in web two. I think. I think it's ten times better and ten times worse at the same time. So because it's all about reputation, it's all about like networking in the space, I think this kind of platforms like, like, like podcasts are a very good tool for, for a lot of founders there.

Eric Rutherford [37:34 - 37:56]: That is true. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a small community and you, you see this in a lot of different areas as well, but especially Web3. It's reputation definitely matters and it, it carries, it carries with you as we, as we just wrap up here. Any takeaways you'd like to leave the audience with?

Alex Nicorici [37:56 - 39:35]: Obviously, check my podcast as well if you're interested in Web3. But I think just be, just be open and look through that. There are actually a couple of resources. There's this thing called. So one of the things I do, for example, at the end of my episode is ask people for resources. Some people talk about like different things that they use. Maybe I will. I'll give you an example of some books or some, some stuff that I'm listening to and I think might be interesting, especially from an economical standpoint or from like a information educational standpoint. There are a couple of podcasts that I think like, are really good. So one of them is made by tortoise media and talks about like USDT, which is like one of the biggest stable coins, if not the biggest stable coin in, in Web3. It's a bit scary, but it's interesting to, to kind of understand a bit the industry. I'm also reading a book right now. Give me a second. I can actually tell you what is the name of it because I posted about it on Twitter this morning. But, yeah, basically to kind of tell you it's just go and like, learn more about it. So the book is called numbers go up inside cryptos while rise and staggering fall. So it's not always bad in Web3. I promise, though, and to be, to be curious and to, and to be respectful when you go and people's podcasts, like, try to, try to collaborate with them and try to help them promote because I feel like all these people want to be on podcast, but they don't really appreciate the work. And I think we as podcasters do so much for, for everybody that it's the audience that we're building, it's the, the people that we have as guests. So I think that would be maybe my takeaway. Be curious and be respectful to podcasters.

Eric Rutherford [39:35 - 40:05]: I love that. Yeah, definitely. You know, from, there's, there is a lot of work that goes into, into podcasting. And so that's not for anybody out there who's thinking about a podcast or any businesses. That's not to deter you. That's just a set the stage. But yeah, the collaboration that can occur, the cross promotion, if both sides do it, it's phenomenal. But, man, yeah, if just a host or just a podcast does it, it's a lot of work. It really.

Alex Nicorici [40:05 - 40:29]: Yeah. But you know, you know, what's really important and that, you know, what was my first rule for myself at the beginning of podcasting was to make it fun because I made so much types of different content before, and it was, it was a chore. I got to a point where, like, I love doing this, but I hate it at the same time. And with podcasting, I had to keep it fun. So as long as you keep it fun, like, I think the motivation is going to continue being there.

Eric Rutherford [40:29 - 40:51]: I agree. And like, just in general, I geek out on podcasts. So, like, this is like, this is the dessert part. This is the best part right here. It's just having the conversation and learning a ton. And I think this is awesome. Alex, if people want to know more about you, more about out of ordinary, your podcast, your consultancy, where would you want them to go?

Alex Nicorici [40:51 - 41:25]: You can go on out ofordinary XYZ. It's still work in progress there. So don't kill me out of ordinary on Spotify, Apple podcasts or YouTube. And that's super responsive on LinkedIn. It takes me a bit to get back to you, but you can follow some of my work on LinkedIn. Alexandra Nikoric, or you can find me on Telegram, Twitter, forecaster with Frogule. Frogule. And yeah, I'm more than happy to always meet people and to see what can come out of that.

Eric Rutherford [41:25 - 41:59]: Awesome. So we're going to drop those links in the show notes, definitely reach out to Alex, connect with her, and like she said, just, just get into the space and do some learning because the technology is fascinating and I think we just haven't gotten far enough along yet in the use cases for how it'll be. But also the community, it's, it's just a neat community and what people are trying to do. So, Alex, this has been a ball. I have had fun this episode. So I think that's a win. So thanks for joining me today.

Alex Nicorici [42:00 - 42:04]: Thank you. Do you let me show something else at the end of this?

Eric Rutherford [42:04 - 42:06]: Yeah, absolutely. Please do.

Alex Nicorici [42:06 - 42:31]: If there's there any women at the end listening right now there's a program for women in Web3 only with women educational program. It's one of the best. I did it. It's called shifi. So shifi.org. you can definitely sign up there if you want to learn more about the technology and the industry itself. And it's definitely the best place to start, to start your journey in Web3. Okay, so now I'm done.

Eric Rutherford [42:31 - 42:34]: No, no, that's good. So say that again. Shifi.org.

Alex Nicorici [42:34 - 43:02]: Yes, I think it's shifi.org. so it's basically because she needs to be financially independent. So she and finance basically, they run events. They, especially if you're in the US, they do a lot of events in both, on both coasts. They have big communities on telegram, they do idle events, they do meetups. They do a bunch of amazing stuff. So I think if you want to not feel alone when you're starting your journey, I think that's a, a great place to start with.

Eric Rutherford [43:02 - 43:10]: Excellent. So we're going to drop that in the show notes as well for the ladies to check that out. Alex, this has been fun. Thanks so much.

Alex Nicorici [43:10 - 43:15]: Thank you so much for inviting, thanks to everybody who's been listening and see you next time.