It's Marketing's Fault

Welcome to It's Marketing's Fault, where we discuss how to do marketing the right way.

I'm your host, Eric Rutherford, and I am thrilled today because I have with me Jonah Blackburn and Jacob Namafa.

They're the co-founders of Lucid Meme, which helps companies appeal to Gen Z on social media, utilizing humor-driven content, which turns your brand from just another to just can't forget.

Jonah, Jacob, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having us.

It's super, super happy to be here.

I know we're gonna have an absolutely great conversation and we're looking forward to it.

Absolute pleasure.

Awesome.

Well, cool.

Let me just jump in here and let's just start with a contrarian thought here.

How do you respond to...

There has to be at least more than one detractor.

We'll just say, so we'll go plural, detractors who say memes and they're just silly.

They can't be used for serious business.

We get this all the time, naturally, you know, we speak to lots of different people in different industries, at different ages.

For Jonah and I and millions of other people, billions around the world, we grew up with this type of content.

Memes are our language, debatably the language of the internet.

So for us, you know, it's a language.

So it's second nature.

It's how we communicate.

especially with people always kind of growing up into roles and you know, starting to have more power, buying power, power in companies, for example.

We basically see it as memes have been around for a while and they're not going anywhere, anywhere soon.

Anytime soon.

Yeah, to me, you know, honestly, you know, what I would say is, you know, I think, you know, companies today have such an issue of fighting for attention.

And that really is the currency of today.

You know, that's how people can get engaged, but it's how they get shares, how they get awareness and that.

I mean, really is how they get like, more people to buy their brand, their product, their service.

And I think, you know, people are fighting with the same kind of content.

So nobody stands out.

And really, you know, meme content is the way, you know, as Jacob said, of like, of like how we communicate.

So, I mean, to me, it makes sense that should be the way to kind of differentiate yourself by allowing yourself to have fun.

You know, I think I think kind of Gen Z, you know, I think, you know, all marked is today, are pretty arrogant in my opinion, because I think that, you know, they think that they're gonna get four or five minutes of someone's attention span.

Simply it's not the case, you know, no way.

You know, you have 10 seconds, you know, maximum to hook somebody in.

And like, what better way to do that than by a meme and making them laugh?

I think it's so brilliant because, and I agree with you, you have zero attention span from anybody.

You get like a second, maybe two to get their attention.

Most businesses, and I'm just going to go B2B here, but B2C does the same thing.

Most B2B businesses are so unbelievably boring and drab.

You could almost swap names and logos.

Like, what's the difference?

Right?

And so I think I like how you want...

So in a world where everything looks the same, you're like, let's give you people's attention.

Yeah.

Let's give you a reason to stand out.

Right.

And it's what they want as well.

People want to feel good.

They, you know, they wanna be communicated in a way that makes sense to them.

And yeah, they feel good feelings as a result as well.

Everyone wins.

It does.

It's like you have this endearment.

They laugh, they feel connected.

And man, it's just hard to do that with a business, right?

To be able to make that connection in general.

just.

You know, just kind of going from that also, I think, you know, I think when you look at industries, you know, like, like the industries have the most objections, like, for example, the finance industry, the healthcare industry telecoms, these are very serious and, you know, kind of robust industries.

But at the same time, they're the ones, in my opinion, that can benefit the most because they're the most gray and the most dull and they've been doing the same thing, accepting status quo for God knows how many years.

And, you know, we think it's time that gets completely turned upside down.

Cause why have we not got some telecoms company that is actually trying to do something fun?

Why are we as consumers accepting this level of marketing, which is just terrible.

It is, and those industries you just mentioned, they are incredibly boring.

I used to work in telecom, I get that one.

Like it was just, it's horrible.

It's like working for the utility, right?

Everybody gets the, it's the power company, it's the water company.

You just want it to work, right?

There's an, but finance and insurance are the same thing.

It's like, you don't want to draw attention to yourself, right?

You must, you have to be three piece suit.

shine shoes perfectly boring.

I don't know.

I agree.

We actually have a client that we're working with that is a financial consultant.

Like I hope many others are realizing that this marketing environment has shifted.

So she's very happy for us to be making meme content because she knows it makes her stand out.

As Jacob was saying, Gen Z is controlling so much buying power now, and that's only continuing to increase.

They're the ones that you need to be appealing to, you know, if you think I compare it really like I really say the dot-com bubble.

I think that the same kind of reaction as people said, you know, the Internet's not gonna like affect my business.

Where are they now?

And it's the same with these companies who are like memes are not gonna go anywhere.

It's just not the case.

Memes are gonna fundamentally change your business and I believe that the like firms that like won't embrace me marketing, I mean they're not gonna be able to be seen.

No one's gonna know who they are.

Very, very soon in my opinion.

As an old Gen Xer, I totally remember that dot com bubble firsthand.

So I remember exactly what that was like.

Let me ask this.

Do memes connect?

Is it only with Gen Z or is it bigger than that?

Do you see it really just connecting with like the whole spectrum of people?

What have you seen?

Big time.

So yeah, like the generational lines have blurred and they're blurring by the day.

We often talk about big companies in the UK, for example, that are really good at mean marketing, one that Jonah and I often bring up is Ryanair.

And they naturally appeal to lots of different people.

They're the spirit of the UK, for example.

So they appeal to lots of different people, often lots of young people, because it's lower budget, but then obviously they've got people that are 50 plus or other ages, millennials, whatever.

Their content is loved and viewed and shared by everyone.

People have this association with them that they're personable, they're charismatic, and across the board, people resonate with the content.

I think that Jonah mentioned once that his grandma, his grandma sent him a meme from Ryanair once, and it just shows, like, the lines are blurring.

It's not just for Gen Z.

The lines are blurring.

It's not just for Gen Z.

It kind of, it started with Gen Z as such, but it is the language of internet, so it touches all parts of it.

Yeah, I mean, I totally agree.

I don't really have much to add, because of course he stole my story.

But yeah, I totally agree.

I totally agree.

I love how you talk about it as the language of the internet, right?

Because it's like everywhere on social, right?

It's like all, it seems like all social channels regardless have a meme component or a meme, almost meme foundation anymore.

Well, I mean, being honest, and I think this is a big part of why we're doing this.

I think social media in so many regards has gotten so bleak and negative, that positive feel good content is being resonated out so hard because people are looking for a positive dopamine rush.

And I fundamentally think that it's up to brands, it's up to agencies, it's up to all, it's up to us to be putting that positive content back.

And like, you know, making social media become a good place to be again, where, you know, people can feel happy about their lives instead of all, you know, this potentially negative stuff that, you know, can go on, you know, really behind closed doors.

You know, I mean, what we do, if we make someone laugh, really, we've done our job well.

And that is our mission statement, right?

You like, like kind of making their day better by just...

like really enjoying the moment and just, you know, like feeling like, you know, they're a part of a wider bracket, that wider community that they're, you know, relating to the content, you know, plus the brand or the agency that is posting.

And yeah, you know, I couldn't ask for a better job personally.

Yeah.

Uh, it's like the familiarity of the memes himself as well.

It's, you know, going back to your point, Eric on connection.

It, when you see a brand basically, you know, presenting themselves in a way that makes so much sense to you founded on this meme, which has transcended the, you know, it's gone all over the internet, um, and already has like, there's already a big fire of meaning and they basically, you know, put some kindling on from, from X brand, it basically says, you know, we're approachable, we get you, there's a two-way, you know, there's a symbiosis here.

And that's ridiculously powerful.

I love it.

And that's one of those things where it makes me ask, is it, what makes those memes powerful?

Do you think it's that connection as you've talked with countless businesses?

Is it the humor?

Is it sort of that juxtaposition of seriousness and this irony on top of it?

Because a good meme, there's so much going on.

Uh, but it's all, it all seems very subtle and it's like just, I don't know.

Anyway, I'll throw that out there and see if that question makes sense.

100%.

I'll keep it short and sweet on my side.

For me, it often boils down to relatability so that you see the piece of content and you think, have you been reading my emails?

Have you been on my phone?

This literally happened to me yesterday.

And it's that connection now where you're thinking this social media manager is so jokes.

They go, they live the same life as me.

I feel, I feel like we've got some common ground here.

Relatability for me, it's a big, a big common denominator.

I totally agree with that, but I would actually take it one step further and say the relatability leads to vulnerability, honestly.

It allows people to put down their guard and be open to having a conversation, discussing maybe tough topics.

Really I think that this kind of humor-driven content should be utilized in ways that people aren't even thinking about yet.

For example, mental health.

and memes can be such a powerful tool because it's not me talking at you about what you should be thinking and why, which nobody likes, because nobody likes to be talked at like they're in school.

They like to be included within a conversation, like laughing at something that is happening to you, this kind of shared pain point, the way you know so many others are having the same thing.

Yeah, I mean, it makes you more vulnerable, it makes you more okay to speak out.

That makes, I like that because it brings you in, it lowers the boundaries, you get a laugh, but you very much feel connected.

Like I say, it's marketing millennials that I've seen on LinkedIn, and they post a bunch of memes, and they make me laugh because they do just what you guys described, right?

They bring me in and I feel like they know me, they have totally read my mail.

And, but at the same time, they lower the boundaries and like, they know my pain too, right?

It's like they, they get me and they do all of that.

Like, as you say, in like one second and you're there, whereas other ways, it's just, it takes a long time to build that.

So I got to ask, and you don't have to give me the secret recipe, but I'm fascinated.

How do you go about creating a meme?

I mean, what is the process for creating a meme?

And how do you do that with customers?

Yeah, so it, you know, it.

And you don't have to, and like I say, you don't have to give me like the secret ingredients.

You can just give me the high level stuff.

Cause I don't, I don't want to like give away the magic.

I'll keep it at this.

It's, I think a lot of it kind of comes down to, to like something funny that you'd say to a friend in the pub or whatever.

I personally, the way I work with creating content around our kind of magic position as such is I work from the visual to the text.

So I see the visual and then you kind of think when you think the situation.

And you know, my mind, this is after we've done, you know, all of our research on the companies, on their audiences, that's another thing people often, you know, the people in the company themselves maybe think the content doesn't really work, but you have to remember who it's for and why it makes sense to them, not to you.

So once we've got all of that data, then yeah, basically get into the creation.

I'm personally much more on that.

Yeah, I work from the, you know, it's almost like you see a situation like you would in real life and you just get a caption and you know, get a caption in your head.

You're walking down the street, you see something funny and you just think of something ridiculously outrageous, which is in one sense so different and has nothing to do with it.

But in the other sense is ridiculously aligned.

And it's that marriage which is the magic.

Yeah, I'd like to add just a couple of things.

One is I think it's about kind of merging this very fine line that I do believe that we walk very well, of professionalism and humor.

I think that's really important.

But I also think it's, I mean, I think quite a lot of it is being inherently funny.

I think it's the same thing as saying, well, because like a question I've got is, you know, why can't I create my own memes?

You know, I can just create them.

And I said, well, listen, you know, you can also just go be a standup comedian, but like you don't, you go and buy tickets.

Cause you're not funny, you know?

And that's the thing.

It's like, you know, you actually have that.

I don't think it's something that can be taught like that.

I think it's something that, you know, you either get it or you don't.

And yeah, I think it's not as easy as, you know, well, I'm just going to do it myself.

But it's like, we tell people, please, you know, go and, go and try and come back, you know, when it fails and then we can talk, you know, because, because I know it will, because it's not as easy as it looks or it seems.

It's basically.

No, it is insanely hard.

Like it is, it is just...

It's insanely hard.

Cause I've done just that.

I'm like, so how do you create a meme?

And I'm like, I'm thinking and like, my mind goes blank and like, I start sweating.

And it's just like, I mean, you would have thought I'm trying to, I don't know, figure out how to get to the moon.

I mean, that's how I feel.

And so one of the things you guys mentioned kind of with that is, is think about the audience too.

and how the audience or the people receiving it can laugh, but the business people can totally miss it.

Do you have any stories about that?

I'm just kind of wondering because I get this because I've worked at companies where the internal perception and the external perception are totally different.

I mean, I like to start off with a preface before this.

I think, you know, like really at the end of the day, whether you're looking at a B to B, a B to C, you know.

And I personally believe that the psychology of people doesn't change.

Right.

So like, yeah, you know, the contextual, you know, perception may be different and someone who's looking from an inside out, you know, may not get that exact messaging, but at the same time, you know, the, the main messaging and the main, you know, purpose and reasoning that doesn't change if it's a consumer, if it's an employee, if it's a high level exec, if it's a, you know, if it's anybody.

Cause I mean, you know, people are still fundamentally the same in how they work.

You know, they may.

little nuances but you know people are people and you know and also funny is funny you know and that's kind of that that's kind of how we do it basically And you know, like on a really kind of top level example, if there is a really popular TikTok trend that's been going on for the last three days, it's now really hot in the UK.

And it makes a lot of sense for this brand to basically get involved.

You know, it's all laid out for them.

You go to the team and you say, guys, this is going off, this works.

They look at the piece of content and they don't understand like the strategic value of us posting that piece of content at that time.

with it already meaning something to the audience, then the audience for the last three days have seen it five times and then now X brand is in their world and it means something to them.

But to the people reading, the older people in the company for example seeing it, it means nothing.

So we have to make sure we communicate that well with each case because it's a web of different reasons behind these decisions.

That's a good point.

It's giving them that context and helping them to understand like, hey, this is trending on TikTok.

This is trending on Instagram, wherever it is.

And man, this endears you to them.

You don't have to get it, but just understand that this will make your brand pop.

Right?

This will make it work for you.

I've got an example actually.

about the education part of it.

I just saw actually a brand that I'm a big fan of that I speak about a lot is day's beer and they're a non-alcoholic beer brand in the UK.

And they did just that.

They jumped on a trend called the tube girl trend, which was about two months ago, probably a bit longer, and they had the founder basically go on the tube.

I'm sure you'll listen, you know, people that are in the Tiktok world, they've definitely had this trend, they go on, they go on to you and they have a camera and they're jumping, you know, sticking around.

It's usually like a girl that does it, but they got the founder to go on after the comments and seen him and said, please get him to do it.

Went absolutely viral, basically made their TikTok account.

And yeah, people are now in the comments of every video saying, who's this founder?

Oh my God, you know, basically big fans of him.

And it's powerful stuff.

I think getting on trends is so important.

We've just had a client that we've recently signed and started working with called Long Shot Drinks.

And that is really gonna be our strategy because they're a really fun brand.

And it's all about the brand DNA at the end of the day.

You have to align with the brand DNA.

It has to work.

You can't force funny...

like just being in isolation, you know, like stuff has to be working together towards a joint goal and it has to be, you know, it has to work, it has to feel right, you know, so that's what, you know, we're planning on doing some very fun stuff with them.

You know, I just think, you know, finding that balance is what is really important.

like that, that working on the brand DNA really kind of getting the feel for who they are.

And then even just helping, like you say, with helping them in some ways to branch out and engage in a very different way with their audience.

That kind of leads to the question because marketers and businesses are always like, okay, followers are great.

But followers don't pay the bills, right?

It's you have to go from follower to like trusted partner to like, I'm going to buy something from you.

So.

How do you see this happening?

Is it through this endearment?

Is it like, does it generate inbound leads?

Is it more like becoming top of mind for when they're ready to do something?

How have you guys seen that work?

perspective, I think it is generating inbound leads.

You know, I think it's, it's a very, you know, it's more of a process where that hook is grasping their attention and it's making them become invested in the brand.

You know, then they can go onto the website, you know, they can go onto whatever it is you're trying to sell and you know, whatever it is you're trying to advertise.

Like whether that be like, like some articles or blogs, once somebody's actually invested, then that's where they are happy to do their and reading because it's not, it's not like you're telling them to, it's not like, you know, that that's the only thing that you can read.

It's their choice, you know, to go and, you know, go and have a look at that kind of other content.

Like from the B2C world, I think stuff completely changes because I think, you know, I think once somebody is in, like kind of invested onto the brand side, like they're very happy to go and purchase because again, they feel you're related to you and they feel, you know, really a part of your community.

So they're very happy to go and you know, that is kind of the cutoff, you know, I don't think there has to be much more than that.

I think it's just a way to keep them engaged keep them happy and you know they will keep coming back like very consistently for this humour because it's what people are seeking.

And just to add to that, it's that emotion behind it, which is so memorable, and as Jonah gestured, when you're, for example, if it's, if you're a drinks brand, because you felt something when you're seeing this content, you remember it.

And then when you go into the shop and you see it on the shelf, those feelings, you know, the essence of those feelings come back.

And it's, yeah, I mean, it's especially within fast moving consumer goods we found, those sorts of companies great because Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, people are buying their products all the time on a regular basis.

And if we can keep them top of mind via that feeling and the positive feelings, then yeah, it's really effective.

make sense.

So top of mind, having those positive feelings so that when you see the brand, you feel like you're a part of it and it's like, ooh, I'm just going to buy that because somewhere even in the recesses of my mind, I associate that with happy.

know.

A lot of our business is actually all about psychology.

I think it gets much deeper and it's about, your subconscious will absorb it.

And like really as you just said, you will remember that kind of connection to happy and laughing.

And it will, you'll hear something, smell something, whatever it is that will bring it up, whether that be a month or six months later, that doesn't go away.

It's a very strong, it's a very strong emotional connection.

that I don't believe is very easy to replicate.

And I'm glad you brought up smell because that's something that came to mind through as we're talking about this.

It's like you go, you know, if you think of that whole no like trust, you know, thought process and so forth, it's like you go no and like suddenly become the same moment.

And it does, it becomes, I was thinking about smell and it's like when you smell something, like smell memory is, and there's probably a technical term for that, but that's way above my pay grade.

You got the smell memory going on.

You can remember smells forever and you know exactly the moment.

It's like you're very much tapping into that subconscious in a way that no other marketing I know of does.

No other marketing does that.

So, so let's say I'm a part of a business that doesn't use memes today.

So what, what barriers do they need to sort of get over or get around or get through in order to start using memes?

Because depending on this, obviously depending on the business, you've got, you've got more, uh, more challenges than others, but, but what, what do people need to think about?

before really rolling out memes.

First thing that comes to mind with that Eric is agility and agility by way of processes because for a large portion of the content you need to be able to move fast and often companies just aren't set up in that way approvals wise people need to have you know people all over the company just need to see it yeah I'm sure you had that back at back in the telecoms so there's that and there's also too many cooks spoil the broth.

And if you're getting opinions from 20 different people, by that time, obviously, the times pass and the memes kind of valuable.

And it's also diluted to the point where the messaging isn't succinct.

It's trying to do too many things at once and it just is too much.

So yeah, that's a big barrier for sure how companies operate, they need to be much more agile and also give more trust their kind of younger employees more make sure they have the processes ahead.

of when they need to act on the ground as opposed to putting them behind the creation process.

Have them before and then they can basically do their own thing as opposed to after.

That would be my two cents.

Yeah, just going from that, you know, I totally agree.

And I think, you know, I think you're having trust in the younger employees, you know, is so important because again, you know, these CMOs who I get are very experienced and I'm not for one second, try to take that away.

But at the same time, they're still, you know, like a lot of companies, they still think that status quo still applies.

And the truth is that is fundamentally incorrect because, because this marketing landscape has shifted so drastically and is continuing to shift so drastically that what they think worked 10 years ago and they're convinced is still working is just like not even touching the surface of what they could be and also why.

And this is good.

I.

like not sound disrespectful, why are they paying somebody if they think that they're just gonna say no the whole time and tell them how to do their job?

Why hire a social media manager and then say no, you're incorrect?

It doesn't make sense to me.

You know, these companies, you know, I get, you know, there's five to 10 lines of approvals, which is crazy as it is, but then why should the buck not stop?

at the social media manager who that's his job.

Like that's their job to control the budget, to control what is going out on social.

You know that should be my biggest thing is you know have some faith in your social media manager.

or let them go, let them go.

It just doesn't make sense to me personally.

That's a big part of what we do, is we try to instill this trust that, hey, we know what we're doing, and so does your social media manager.

It doesn't need to be nine levels of approvals.

We can just go straight with one person as long as they have some form of stakeholder power.

There's so much in what you guys just shared there.

It's like the marketing has changed so much.

Now it's very, you do have long term marketing, but you also have this short term.

It's like you went from like really long campaigns and then social media came along, which is still more campaigns, maybe a little shorter.

And then you have really this.

the meme and what I would, and the video shorts, which now seem to be like, it's even more, the turnaround time is even shorter.

And so it's like, you have to have that agility.

And I agree, a lot of companies just, they don't.

Like they do not have any flexibility whatsoever.

Do you, and it sounds like you get some feedback on that too.

definitely have, you know, they have to be okay to be reactive because this kind of content is based on being a reactive content to situational context.

You know, if you're not okay with being very fast, moving in dynamic and, you know, very reactive to the times that we're in, then I don't see how you can do well on social, you know, because I mean, you know, any plan, if planned too much, I think it fails.

You know, if you have the most rigid guides and there's no way that you can go, off the track, that doesn't happen.

You know, there's no such thing as theoretical marketing.

It's practical real life marketing, right?

And it's stuff doesn't go to plan.

And that's, you know, that's part of the business.

Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

I'd also add, yeah, it's, for social media managers as well, they often have to, they're often given so many tasks.

It's like they're managing five platforms and then they're the in-house graphic designer, video editor, that we've all seen those memes around, you know, carrying bags with 10 different titles on.

And it means that they can't be a social media manager.

and they can't be agile and reactive in this way.

And then the people maybe hiring the company are thinking why, questioning why they can't operate with more agility, but it's because they're lumped with all of these things.

That's definitely a practical issue as well.

And it seems to like the benefit of being able to try and capture or jump into the trend is if something doesn't go quite as well as you want it to, you've got another thing coming quickly, right?

It's not like you've got one campaign that if it messes up this quarter, you're toast.

It's like you get lots of chances to make that impact.

So if one's not quite as strong as another...

it doesn't affect you that much.

funny post that has gone with me for a long time and I think it couldn't be more true.

Someone said, the worst thing that happens in a shit post is nobody sees it.

Who cares?

It's not like it's the ones that are bad that everybody sees, otherwise it wouldn't be a bad post.

I think that it couldn't be more true.

It is.

And it is.

It's like, okay, if it flops, eh, nobody saw it anyway.

It's okay.

It's a hard pill to swallow for lots of people because they think that everyone's looking at their page religiously but it's not, it's just you.

We all do it with our personal pages, our common pages.

No one cares about your page as much as you do.

It's factual.

True.

It is.

Like, when you...

And I think executives need to kind of get...

Honestly, I think they need to try stuff out.

I really do.

Because when you actually get your hands on it and you try stuff out and you throw stuff out there and it's just crickets, right?

It's just like nothing.

It's like, okay, we just keep going, right?

You just have to do something else, right?

You just...

And you just keep going.

You can't just stop and say, whoa, is me.

you know, we had a company and I can't say, you know, which company it was, but I mean, they're planning for the end of their 2025 creatives.

I think it's hours of two months ago.

And it's like that.

I mean, for the selling period to be two years to get any kind of meeting or approval, anything, even start that conversation is ludicrous in my opinion.

Like crazy, right?

Crazy.

Yeah Yeah, exactly.

for that one.

I'm serious.

You don't even know what text is going to be used in two years.

It's crazy to me, absolutely crazy.

You guys have an uphill climb a lot of days.

I can tell.

I can just tell you were fighting uphill with a lot of brands.

mean really I fundamentally believe in the saying it snowballs down a mountain.

I think it takes some key players in the industry to take that shot and then all the dominoes collapse because nobody wants to do it last.

Nobody wants to be left out of the party.

Everyone has FOMO.

So once there is a key player that starts to take it seriously, and in each of these industries, then everybody else comes very, very quickly wanting the same thing.

And I think we've got this kind of comparative advantage because there is no other company that really has positioned themselves for this content.

There are other agencies that have tried, but in my opinion, they're pretty diabolical because it's someone who is a completely different age demographic who is trying to target somebody that is 25, for example.

And they have no idea what that shared experience is because they lived it 25 years ago and times have changed.

And that's the whole point is nobody's set up to say, we understand this culture because grew up with inherently.

It's what we talk to our friends in, you know, like, this is us, and, you know, we are it, you know, it's by Gen Z for Gen Z, which is, you know, one of our, like, like strap lines, but it couldn't be illustrated, I mean, really better, you know, to be honest.

you've been reading my mail because like I'm 50.

So you just like hit me with the example, like somebody who's 50 doesn't know how somebody 25 thinks because that was 25 years ago.

And I'm like, yeah, that's true.

Okay.

So.

No, no, he's definitely not you.

You're no one in society, no way.

Yeah Oh, appreciate that.

Appreciate that.

I'm going to cut what I said and I'm just going to leave what you said.

Okay, it's all in the editing, right?

That's how it's all in the editing.

That's too funny, too funny.

Oh, so just as we wrap up any take one takeaway, you'd like to leave with the audience.

people need to be okay to try things out and not be too scared of change.

I think that's the biggest thing that we're trying to say is change is not always a massive deal and a really crazy thing to imagine.

Just go and try it.

That's how social media is evolving.

That's how marketing in general is evolving.

And we're not saying to replace all of your marketing with mean marketing.

That's not the aim of the game.

But it has to be very much within the marketing mix and it's not some isolated campaign that's over here while all your other stuff's over here.

It's all going towards a joint goal.

That's the whole point of it.

It's not like memes are trying to do one thing and the rest.

It's all trying to do the same thing.

So why not just try and diversify?

Why does everybody think putting their eggs in one basket is a good idea?

That's the earliest phrase there is.

Is don't put your eggs in one basket.

Yeah, every company in the world's...

ha.

That magic message, it's crazy.

I'd say they've got no idea what they're missing out on and they'll see at some point.

But there are so many missed opportunities which because it seems otherly and risky, they stay far away from.

But as we all know, the best things in life always are underpinned by those feelings.

So we'll see.

I love it.

You miss 100% of the chances you don't take.

That's it.

Yeah, you got it.

It's, you have to take the risk.

It's a measured risk, but you take the risk and then you get the reward.

So I love it.

So for, for people who are like, man, I want to get on the meme, I want to get on board with memes and I want to reach out to you guys.

I want to find out where you guys are at.

Where do you want us?

So I mean, feel free to go online, which is just by typing in Lucid Meme into Google, we'll come up.

Our email addresses are either Jacob or Jonah at lucidmeme.co.uk.

And then our Instagram also, just search for Lucid Meme, and you'll see our logo.

Our bright yellow logo pop.

like straight up.

But we're very, very responsive.

We are happy to talk to anybody.

We love to chat and we love to, yeah, we love to chat and find out stories and share our stories.

I love it.

So if you're listening, make sure to check them out.

Look at their, we'll put all those links in the show notes.

Check them out.

Go to their website, go to their Instagram account.

If you can read their website and see their Instagram account and you don't immediately feel more endeared to them and like them, then well, anyway, well, you might not be the right people, but it's hysterical.

Like I love their stuff.

So Jonah, Jacob, thanks for joining me today.

This has been a blast.

it's been an absolute pleasure.

Thanks a lot for having us.